Mick Harvey. Andrew Trute photo @andrew_trute_aus
Recently the call went out that Bleak Squad - that startling, noir-esque band comprising Marty Brown (Art of Fighting), Mick Harvey, Adalita Srsen (Magic Dirt) and Mick Turner (Dirty Three) - were touring Australia again.
Having recently relistened to Bleak Squad and finding that I enjoyed them - a process I commend to you - I decided it might be a good idea to ask Mick Harvey a few questions.
The interview ranges a bit wider than just Bleak Squad. As you will see, Mick was very patient with my questions and irreverence, and I must thank him for finding time to complete these questions when I know he was extremely busy.
Bleak Squad (L-R): Mick Harvey, Adalita, Marty Brown, Mick Turner. Photo by Felix Oliver
What books have you found the most engaging lately?
Mick Harvey: Lately, I have not been reading many books at all. I read a news digest which keeps me “up to date” with the world but I’ve not really been feeling like engaging with novels recently. Normally I would attempt to be reading a non-fiction book, some kind of history book and a novel at the same time, but recently I've not been doing that.
Bleak Squad have a gentle, yet tight tension to them - this seems quite delicate - is it hard to maintain or do you just naturally play this way together?
Mick Harvey: Yes, it’s pretty much that we play that way naturally together. We didn’t put a lot of thought into how we might sound playing together or what type of music we were going to make or discussing our style or some artistic outcome. We simply got together and put our ideas together in the studio and just started working on them. So the sound you hear is just the different characteristics and personalities of the musicians in the room, and it is a very natural style.
You're going to be doing another tour of Australia - I note with astonishment that the first gig is in the Blue Mountains, and the following night you're playing in Perth? Let's hope your flights aren't delayed!
Mick Harvey: Indeed it's not my idea of good organisation to be flying to Perth the day after a show and playing that night because you do tend to find yourself still on stage at what is two in the morning on the East Coast and it can impact one’s condition. So I much prefer travelling the day before and having a sleep but anyway it's not happening and I'm getting older.
I expect the set will have altered a bit by then? Is LP number two on the way?
Mick Harvey: LP number two will be on the way soon. I think we're going into the studio in early March. There are some ideas floating around and we have been adjusting the set and adding some different songs and sourcing them from different places to keep it interesting for us as much as anything.
We did record a lot more than just the songs on that album in the first sessions so we could even delve into some of the things that were unfinished.
Bleak Squad seems to be one of those bands where the songs are lifted - if not enhanced - by live performance. How did that happen, were you expecting it..?
Mick Harvey: I don't think we were expecting anything, so all of these things are a surprise and, as I said, the songs were put together in the studio and worked out there so we didn't get ourselves road fit or play the songs live before recording them. So it's very likely that they are improving through the live performance aspect that’s happening now.
You and Adalita have formed a special bond onstage; how would you describe it? And, what’s the difference between that and the bond you have with PJ Harvey, and that of Amanda Acevedo?
Mick Harvey: I can only say it's almost always a joy to sing with women. I love singing with other people generally but obviously singing with Amanda Acevedo has been probably my main career focus in recent times. That's been my main project, the collaboration with Amanda. And that’s a specific thing because we're primarily working on duets.
With Adalita there’s a lot of singing together, or I'm putting in a backing vocal, or we are alternating lines or something like that. They're not really like duets so they're quite different to what I’m doing with Amanda but it's always really interesting to hear how how one’s voice blends with other people’s, and it's always different of course.
So with Polly it was only singing a little bit really and mostly on “Let England Shake”. There are other voices in there too but quite often it was predominantly mine. I’ve been doing quite a lot of singing with women in the last 15 years or so. It’s always a pleasure to be involved in that kind of singing.
You first saw The Saints in Melbourne nearly 50 years ago. And the Birthday Party played alongside the Laughing Clowns. That’s a big history… Could you tell us a little about the latest The Saints '73-78 tour, how it feels to be playing these songs and with Ed and Ivor, how you all interact on tour, and a few highlights..?
Mick Harvey: Okay? That's quite a lot of requests there. I mean the best thing I could say is that in some ways it's quite bizarre to have been drawn into this group to be playing those songs that I've known for so long, since my very early years.
Of course it's different in one fundamental way which is that the catalogue I'm playing is not something that's been part of my creative journey or part of my creative output itself so it’s like I'm there as a hired hand to recreate somebody else's work. It’s actually brilliant, enjoyable but a very different thing to be doing and something that I probably wouldn’t continue doing. I probably made an exception to do that with The Saints because of my love and respect for their history and their songs.
Is it true that Ed’s considering a studio LP with this line-up?
Mick Harvey: I have absolutely no idea. He wouldn’t need me anyway.
Is the info I have right, that you did solo opening sets for Ed Kuepper and Jim White in the USA? (How are things in the States? Have you become a MAGA hat wearer?) More importantly, have you considered starting and running your own band?
Mick Harvey: Things in the States were quite tense in a way. There's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of confusion about what's happening and where things are going but it wasn't as dangerous or as volatile as the impression one might get from a distance.
Of course that is changing rapidly. In some cities now things are ramping up. But it was okay to go there and it was like, America with some extra weirdness. It's possible that in the coming years it may become untenable to go. You might be kidnapped on the street and deported to El Salvador or something for having an Australian passport. Who knows?
It's all going a bit crazy but it was quite interesting being back in America and it was very much the same as it usually is except there is a lot of and tension and people are worried about where things are going.
As for wearing a hat … the only thing I came up with was a slogan for a Trump cap which was “Trump is so far right about everything” but the double meaning is too subtle for most people - they don’t get the joke.
The opening solo sets I played for Jim & Ed were most enjoyable and the first time I have played solo in America.
The Saints '73-'78. with Mick Harvey at left. Cait Wood photo
Here's another “loaded gun'”question: In March, the RetroFuturista site interviewed you and Amanda. Apropros about Jackson C. Frank's songwriting, Amanda remarked that: ‘I believe he was a very troubled person that against all odds, fought for beauty and wanted to find some comfort in music, maybe understand better the horrible situations he lived through. He was very genuine in his lyrics, but also very surreal’.
Her comment made me think of quite a few other musical artists, many of whom, like Frank, didn't just live through difficult times, but visited them on themselves; does that description remind you of any of the people you've worked with?
Mick Harvey: Yes it does, Robert. You can fill in the blanks of who you think that is because I have a much more subjective view of it and could not take an objective position wherein I could feel comfortable naming names ... but I know what you mean.
The 13 Questions website recently indicated that you are at last writing your autobiography. But hang on … I mean, Barry has, and so has Kid… and your life has been extraordinarily eventful, so surely the question should be: ‘WHEN you write your autobiography, how hard will it be to leave things out?’ Will it be in several volumes?’
Mick Harvey: It is possible that it will be a very large book. Maybe I'll do it in a couple of different versions. A more readable, easy paperback version or something like that and perhaps a very large coffee table book with loads and loads of photos and drawings and scans of crazy things. But I'm basically trying to put it into the format of simply telling stories that are entertaining.
I don't think people are really that interested to read a book from a musician or a rock 'n' roll book, as it may be perceived, which is all very heavy or kind of weighty. I think people want to be entertained by that.
When I've read books about music or musicians it's great when they are entertaining and that extreme crazy stories are being related and so I am trying to tell my story through anecdotes, interesting and funny amusing things that happened...extreme things that would happen and through that device I’m hoping to paint a picture of the surrounding information...to paint some kind of picture of the whole, so people get a feel for what was really going on around all that stuff too. So I’ll have to determine whether I've succeeded in that mission.
On stage with Amanda Acevedo. Andrew Trute photo
Once it's more put together I'll be able to get some picture of that myself but I'll have to sit back and read it all again in some kind of order. I’ve written about 90 percent of the raw material so it's well underway but it has been very slow for the last few years. It's not exactly high on my list of priorities to be honest.
We all change as we get older: what music/ film/ art has remained an influence on you (if any)... also, what changes have you noticed/ caused in yourself?
Mick Harvey: I think lots of the things that I've always liked remain the influences on me. The music I loved when I started playing music is still very strong for me. Other things have come into play as well but nothing recent that's overtaken those early influences. Nothing else that has become incredibly definitive in some new direction. The films that I always loved made by Welles and Kurosawa and Scorsese and these people are still there. The filmmakers that I love so that hasn't changed. I still enjoy films - new films too. I'm not just stuck with old films.
I think I've changed quite a lot and my approach to things has become much calmer so that's good. No one wants to be really stressed out all the time. It's good to let go of things and not just try to control everything because you find that actually, you can control what's happening to a very satisfactory degree without having to be a maniac about it.
Many people I have worked with are control freaks and that's probably pushed me into feeling that I needed to assert myself as well or I would find myself being used as a doormat and it made me have to show that side of my personality. So probably now that I'm in a position where I'm doing much more of my solo work I don't have to be as controlling of myself.
How has your religious background affected the way you live and work?
Mick Harvey: It made me understand how I felt and what I believed about such matters. I had to process my position on all of that when I was about 14.
Rowland S Howard once remarked to me that he thought the music industry was the last big feudal industry; Ian Bell later described music execs as ‘paint salesmen’ ... What are the most striking differences in the music industry between 1977 and now?
Mick Harvey: I always say that the music industry is just selling potatoes. Rowland may well have said something like that but he would have been wholly ignorant of most business practices, living as he did in his own charismatic bubble.
The music industry is still trying to find ways not to pay the artists properly if they can possibly avoid it. In that regard nothing has changed.
When Bob Blunt interviewed you in April, you quoted Ollie Olsen advising you to 'make art, not music'. While the interview seems to imply that Ollie told you that fairly early on, just when did Ollie tell you that? I mean, that's a very ambitious goal for someone just starting out, and it's an attitude which these days seems far, far, from the reality of vivid, exciting creativity. For young folks today, is such an attitude viable, or merely worthy?
Mick Harvey: Ollie did not advise me to do that; it was just a quote I heard that was attributed to him. It’s a good guide for how to make something worthwhile out of musical tools. I do not think it is in any way an ambitious goal for anyone.
The idea is that if you are just making music in some genre or aping someone else’s style then you are just making music, nothing beyond that. If you are trying to make art out of music there is some chance you might come up with something unique. That should be anyone’s objective. If it’s not then they are probably just tying to make money or become famous or they enjoy recreating what other people have invented and developed.
You’ve worked with some of Australia’s most feted and beloved names: Cave, Rowland, Adalita, Spencer, Ed Kuepper … do they have qualities in common?
Mick Harvey: They are all great songwriters.
Yet there have been many others, less well-known, that you've worked with here. What prompts you to work with other people? What makes a finished work successful?
Mick Harvey: I am prompted to work with people if they are good songwriters or have a powerful musical idea. With that starting point the finished work has a chance of being successful … artistically.
New Bleak Squad single out in February on Poison City Records
Is there anyone you would have liked to work with, but haven't or weren't able to?
Mick Harvey: Not really.
Are there collaborative recordings/ film soundtracks out there that have yet to see the light of day?
Mick Harvey: Not many.
Who was the most stressful person/ band you've work with, and why? For balance, who was the sweetest?
Mick Harvey: Well, The Birthday Party was, at times, a very stressful band to be in but the rewards that came out the other side of the mission were worth it. The most stressful person was definitely Blixa Bargeld; he can be very angry in general and can be abusive to service staff which is not very kind.
The sweetest person I’ve worked with is definitely Amanda. Not only does she have lots of ideas I like but I find her incredibly easy to get along with. Also the Bleak Squad guys are just totally chill and I’m enjoying their company and collaborating with them enormously. So I’m in a good place at the moment regarding that kind of thing.
Could you tell us about your collection of instruments? How many, which you favour, which you should really find a new home for but can't bear to...
Mick Harvey: Dave Graney once asked me how many guitars I had and I replied that I didn’t know. Dave was aghast but I think he thought it meant I had dozens. I just don’t count them and some of them I have loaned or given to other people so I’m not sure they are still mine. And anyway, why would I count them? I probably have 15 or 16 guitars and basses. I need them all - they all have different uses. There are a few in Berlin to cover shows over in Europe.
I do like a good Telecaster and my Gretsch Tennessee Rose. Also my Maton Wildcat Bass is a ripper.
How big is your pedal collection? I once saw Loki Lockwood's collection chucked into a bucket; do you keep your pedals in a bucket or labelled on bespoke shelves?
Mick Harvey: Ah, I have stuff chucked in a couple of boxes.
What are your favourite pedals?
Mick Harvey: Probably the Roland Space Echo pedal and one called a Jazz Fuzz that I just picked up in the States. It was a gift.
Which instruments/ pedals have caused you the most frustration, and why?
Mick Harvey: Why would I want to think about that?
OK. What instruments/ pedals do you regret parting with or never buying, or have been lost, stolen, destroyed …?
Mick Harvey: Well, my original Maton Wildcat guitar was left in a taxi in Sydney in 1986. I would love to be reunited with that. Its replacement was stolen from the Bad Seeds crew bus in Bologna in the late 1990s and that has been relocated. I have one again now but I would love to get my first one back because it was my only guitar through the whole of The Birthday Party years.
Top 5 music books?
Mick Harvey: Not sure I’ve read that many that deserve to be cited, but ...
“I’m Your Man” - Sylvie Simmons
“Chronicles” - Bob Dylan
“Hammer of the Gods” - Stephen Davis
“I Put a Spell on You” - Nina Simone
Top five 1970s films?
Mick Harvey:
'”Taxi Driver”
“Solaris”
“Wake in Fright”
“The Conversation”
“The Deer Hunter”
Top five noir films?
Mick Harvey:
“Touch of Evil”
“The Third Man”
“Thieves Highway”
“The Lady from Shanghai”
“Sweet Smell of Success"
Top five French films?
Mick Harvey:
“Touchez pas au Grisbi”
“Alphaville”
“The Wages of Fear”
“Coup de Torchon"
“L’Armée des Ombres”
Top five comedy films?
Mick Harvey:
“Bedazzled”
“Duck Soup”
“A Day at the Races”
“The Party”
“Blazing Saddles”
Top five Nu-metal LPs?
Mick Harvey: I don’t know what that is.
Favourite Throbbing Gristle song?
Mick Harvey: “United”.
Top five Italian Poliziottesco films?
Mick Harvey:
“Caliber 9”
“Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion”
I’ve seen quite a few good ones over the years but I can’t remember what they were all called. Would have been easier to list my favourite Sergio Leone movies!
Should Iggy Pop put his shirt back on?
Mick Harvey: Does anybody care?
Should there be a TV series called “Crimes Against Rock and Roll”?
Mick Harvey: I'm not sure why this question is here.
Why has the Australian music scene been so stifling and boring for so long ..?
Mick Harvey: Because the musical and artistic ambition of most Australian musicians and the industry is very slight.
Lastly, due to “life circumstances” I still haven't seen Bleak Squad yet. Will you be playing Adelaide (perhaps The Gov would be the most appropriate venue)?
Mick Harvey: We plan to put on a gig in Adelaide the next time we set up some shows. For some reason we couldn’t logistically fit it into our upcoming tour.
Visit Bleak Squad online. Bleak Squad's album "Strange Love" is out now on Poison City Records.
Bleak Squad
FEB
7 - Blue Mountains Theatre & Community Hub,
Springwood, NSW
8 - East Perth Power Station, WA
12 - .Her Majesty's Theatre, Ballarat, VIC
13 - Theatre Royal, Castlemaine, VIC
14 – Riverboats Festival, Echuca, VIC
19 - Princess Theatre, Brisbane, QLD
20 – Imperial Hotel, Eumundi, QLD
21 - The Regent Cinema, Murwillumbah, NSW
MAR
4 - Canberra Theatre Playhouse, ACT
5 - The Factory Theatre, Sydney, NSW
8 - Golden Plains Festival, Meredith, VIC
Tickets
